Episode 4: Freed slaves: The Forgotten men of the Revolutionary War

Andrew shares his love of American history by recounting two brave Americans who shaped the course of the Revolutionary War and why they were forgotten in the textbooks.

Website for U.S.A. history books: Wallbuilders.com

This is a podcast for those who love to talk common sense about everyday issues. You will listen to a variety of guests that share common sense ideas through their life experiences by sharing what they learned. For any comments, questions or suggestions for future topics, please contact the show at: stand4commonsense@outlook.com
Song title: Upbeat Indie Folk Music
Music by Lesfm from Pixabay

Transcript

Host: 0:13

Hi, Welcome to the podcast From The Edge Talking Common Sense, because in this day, who wouldn't want a little common sense, right? I'm your host and thank you for tuning in.. In this show, I'll be speaking with Andrew, who lives in Connecticut and is an avid reader of American history. He'll share with us many stories of brave and intriguing men and women who shaped America, and also African American men and women who not only shaped the country, but perhaps the Republican Party. These are stories you probably never learned about or read in school. So I hope like me, you really enjoy what he has to share. So let's dig in and get started. Hi. So Andrew, you grew up in Connecticut, and um, would you like to tell the listeners a little bit more about yourself?

Guest: 1:21

Yeah. I grew up in Connecticut, like you said. Uh, joined the Navy at 18. Soon as I graduated high school, went off to bootcamp and served in the Navy for about 11 and uh, almost 11 years, excuse me. Just, just shy of 11 years and got out, uh, went to college, got married, have a daughter now living the good life here in the Farmington Valley, and, and the rest is history from there.

Host: 1:42

Okay, so today we're gonna be discussing a. Men or women who shaped the Republican Party. And um, I know we had previously discussed there were two heroes of yours, two African Americans that had a huge role to play in the Revolutionary War.

Guest: 2:05

Correct. Yeah.

Host: 2:05

Would you like to start talking about that? Sure,

Guest: 2:08

sure. So, uh, first one that comes to mind is the man by the name of James Armistead(Lafayette) and James was very, very pivotal in the Revolutionary War, specifically in the Battle of Yorktown. That was the last final big battle between America and British. Uh, French were there as well, but the last final big battle of the revolution, and once the, the British lost that battle, it was really all downhill from there, the British didn't last much longer, and, uh, shortly after that, the war was over. But what James did to contribute so much to that battle, he didn't, he didn't have a musket. He wasn't taking the battlefield. He was never a soldier. What he was, was a spy. So prior to the, to the Battle of Yorktown, I'm not sure what year he started doing this, but he was asked and I stress asked, not told, He was asked to go spy on the British, and he, you know, he, he volunteered to do it. He said, Not a problem. And what the way he got into the British camp was the way he got into the British camp was, he went over to one of the camps, you know, whatever camp he could find, um, this large contingent of, of British soldiers. And he said, You know, we, you, uh, you British please, please take me in. I'm a runaway slave. Americans are just so horrible to me. Will you please take me in? So they agreed. They took him in and he had started doing odd jobs for the soldiers. You know, whatever he could do. And he would just keep his ears open, you know, and listen to whatever he could, whatever he could listen to. As time went on, he, he, um, you know, was doing all the work for the British soldiers and there's one British soldier in particular, a senior officer who really took notice of, of what James was doing and how good of work he was doing. And that British Officer General said, James, you need to come work for me. You need to, nevermind, uh, the enlisted soldiers over here. You need to come work for me. So James, and that British soldier, that British officer that he went into work for was, was Benedict Arnold. At that point, Benedict Arnold had already portrayed the American cause. He went back over, he went over to the British side and became a general immediately. So now he's working directly with one of the senior officers for, for the British side and excuse me. And so now he's(James) with the British and you know, he is with, he's with, he is with Benedict Arnold. And now he's really hearing a lot of great stuff because he's with one of the senior generals. So what James would do is he would, he, again, he would just do what Benedict Arnold asked, keep his ears open, and then relay the information to the Americans and on the French side, I'm not sure how he was able to get this information. I'm not sure if James could read or write and if he was, you know, did he write letters or was he in fear of those letters being intercepted? So he would just verbally go tell the British and Americans, not British Americans, excuse me, the French and Americans, uh, what, what he was hearing. And if he did that, how did he get out? What was his excuse to leave the British camp? Again, I'm not sure how all those details were worked out, how he managed to do that, but he did manage to get the information to the Americans and the French. And one day, Benedict Arnold was sent away. He was, he had to go, He was ordered to go somewhere else and, and do whatever it is he needed to do. And there was another senior British General who said, James, you need to come work for me. Stay here, come work for me. And that was, um, uh, Lord Cornwallis, General Cornwallis General Cornwallis was the commanding officer for the Southern British forces at the time. So now James hears all the great stuff because he's, he's with the senior. Again, he's just doing his thing, working, taking care of what the general asked him to take care of by keeping his ears open as time goes on. General Cornwallis comes up to James one day and says, James, you know the Americans, they always seem to be one step ahead of us whenever we go out to find them. We think we know where they are. We get to the location and they're just gone. They always seem to be one step ahead of us. You know, I think we have a spy in our camp. Now, I'm sure at this point James is probably ready to just pass out. He's probably so nervous. I know I would be. He, as if the British found out what he was doing, it would not have taken kindly to him, especially General Cornwallis, inviting a spy to work with him. It probably would've been incredibly embarrassing for Cornwallis. Had had everyone found out that James wasn't spy. Excuse me. Pardon me. I'm just getting over a cold, everybody.

Host: 6:30

Yeah. Don't worry about it.

Guest: 6:32

So he. So Cornwallis keeps talking and, and says, James, you know, like I said, I think we have a spy in the camp. But James, can you do me a favor? Can you go over to the Americans and spy on the Americans for me so we know what the Americans are doing? So James, I'm sure probably breathe a pretty big sigh relief at this point, and James agreed to go Spy on the Americans and the French for Great Britain. So James goes over to the Americans and the French and he says that, um, you know, he explains to them what Cornwallis asked him to do. So now is, is a perfect situation. You can't get a more perfect situation than this because now James has a reason to leave the camp to go quote unquote spy on the Americans. And uh, so whenever he has information to share, he has a reason now to leave. And when he would go over to the Americans and the French. The Americans and the French would give him incorrect information to pass along to the British. So he always came back with something good and at least, you know, so the British thought, so it seemed like he was doing a great job for the British. So they suspected nothing. And then all the information he ended up gathering. Um, I'm not sure, and I'm, I'm not sure how long he did this for, but I'm sure it sounds like it was a, a really extended period of time. But all the information and all the intelligence he was able to gather for the French and the Americans is what made the battle of Yorktown possible. Without his intelligence, there's an excellent chance that we would not have fought that battle. We wouldn't have decided to make a stand right there in Virginia, Yorktown, Virginia. And if we did, would we have been prepared enough to defeat the British that day? Well, we have known what the size of the British forces were, you know, how many artillery they had, how many infantry they had, ships, you know, navy ships, all that information. That's very, very critical In order for the Americans and French to plan properly. To understand what exactly they're going to be going up against. Have we not had that information? If we did go through the battle, we could have very easily lost that battle, which, who knows if we would've won the Revolutionary War at that point, you know, what we have won. If we had suffered a big defeat there in Yorktown, and if we still would've won, how many more years would the Revolution had gone on? You know, would've extended a year, two or three years longer. Who knows? We, you know, we'll never know exactly what would've happened. What we do know is that James' intelligence was incredibly important. So, and also what makes James so special. Not, not only the fact that he, he really helped us win the battle of Yorktown with his, um, with all the information he was able to gather. But he became America's first double agent because don't forget he was spying on the British Or the French and the Americans. But then the British said, Hey, can you go spy on the Americans for us? So he became America's first double agent, and he's not in our history books. I think it's just unbelievable. It's remarkable. There are books that have him, you know, I, I've, you know, that's about how I'm able to learn about him, but we don't learn about him in our school history books, in public school history books at least. So that was, that's, that's James Armistead, that's his story. He ended up surviving the war and, uh, he became very good friends with General Lafayette, who was the, the commanding general of the French forces. He was over in America for several years and they, they did get to meet one more time well, after the war, General Lafayette came back to America sometime in the 18, maybe late 18 teens or early 1820s, somewhere around there. I have to double check the year. But he did come back and to the huge fanfare America loved General Lafayette. So people, huge crowds will come out to see him. And he was, General Lafayette was down, down in the southern colonies and he just happened to cross, cross paths with James. So they did get to see each other one more time before they both passed away.

Host: 10:13

Oh wow. That's amazing. Um, did he ever get to meet George Washington at all? I'm not. Okay. Cuz I know Lafayette and Washington were very, very. They were very close.

Guest: 10:26

And um, I know there was times when there were, Cause there was other spy rings that went around that were around the country. The Culper spying ring.

Host: 10:33

That's right.

Guest: 10:34

New York City, Long Island area was, was very popular and was very, um, instrumental in, in the intelligence that they gathered for the, for the American side. Um, but there was times when General Washington, he, you know, he knew of the spy rings, but he didn't know who the spies were. So there's a good chance that General Washington never even knew who James Armistead. He may have known that James, that there was someone out there gathering the intelligence, Excuse me, but he may not have known who James actually was.

Host: 11:04

Oh wow.

Guest: 11:05

Excellent chance. Cause that was, Those names, those names were, were close, uh, closely guarded secrets.

Host: 11:09

Right, right. That's true. And then who is the second spy?

Guest: 11:17

Well, he wasn't a spy, but the second man, the second man, again, African American man, just like James was, um, his name was Peter Salem is a second guy. So Peter Salem, he was a, he was actually a soldier in the American Revolution. Not like James who, who, who did the work of a spy. But, uh, Peter, he, he fought in multiple battles in the American Revolution, but there's one battle in particular, the Battle of Bunker Hill that he's most known for. Um, and I say most known for, most people don't know his name because he's not talked about in our history books anymore. He was at one point, but not anymore. And what, Um, at the Battle of Bunker Hill, we lost that battle. The British were very relentless. They, they charged our lines. We repelled the charge. They came back a second time. We repelled the charge a second. It was either on the third or fourth attempt that British were making to, um, to defeat us on that day. They were forming back up and they were getting ready to charge again, and I guess that was either the third or the fourth time they were coming back and the Americans all realized, We're outta ammunition. We have no ammunition left. What are we going to do? They, they know. They know the British are coming back. They know they can't fight'em off this time. Do they run, do they get captured? If they run, they get captured. And what happens to them if they get captured? You know, there's this, they, there's, you know, they're starting to panic, I'm sure at this point. Um, so what the, um, uh, what Peter did, Peter had one round left. He had one bullet. So he loads his musket. And what Peter ended up doing is he took aim and he fired, but he didn't, he just didn't shoot at any old soldier he found, was able to spot the commanding officer of the British at that particular British, uh, uh, infantry or platoon, whatever they called it.

Host: 13:07

Right. Wow. And it has a, uh, the British, uh, the British officer

Guest: 13:10

was a major, I can't think of his name, but his rank was a major, and Bri, uh, Peter took aim, fired and killed him.

Host: 13:18

Wow.

Guest: 13:18

Now, what this did, They confused the British, all the soldiers because the, the man who was barking out all the orders, telling'em what to do, how to do it, and, you know, running the whole show in the British side was dead. So now there's no orders being given out. That caused mass confusion on the British side. The British were able to regather, you know, regroup themselves and figure things out and, you know, uh, you know, the second, the second man in charge, you know, stepped up and they worked everything out. However, that delayed that final charge. Up on bunk on Bunker Hill, delayed the british's final charge, which gave the Americans enough time to escape. So without Peter Salem's expert marksmanship that day, and just the, the, the understanding of, you know, Okay, I have one bullet left. We gotta make this count. He, you know, he didn't, like I said, he didn't shoot any old soldier. He took aim, particularly specifically at the, the commanding officer of the British on the British side. Because he knew what it would do to the British. He knew it would give the Americans the best chance for escape and slow the British down as much as possible. So he, he understood what to do. He had expert marksmanship. He actually hit his target. And in doing all that, he probably saved, easily saved several hundred American lives that day because there was an excellent chance that most of those American soldiers would've been captured by the British, or killed by the British. So he saved several hundred American lives that day. And his story is, or to me was in our history books. There's an organization that I started, uh, that I discovered about maybe three years ago, called Wall Builders. Their website is wallbuilders.com.

Host: 14:55

Okay.

Guest: 14:55

And they're non-profit dedicated to teaching, forgotten American History. And one of the things they have in their massive collection of, of historical documents and artifacts is an old history textbook that used to be taught in public schools. It was published sometime in the 1850s I think.. And Peter Salem is in that book. So we know, we used to teach people like Peter Salem in our, in our public schools, but he's, he's no longer in there now.

Host: 15:19

Why do you think that is?

Guest: 15:22

Well, there's, there's probably multiple reasons I would say I, I probably can't pin it down to just one specific reason, is my guess. But, um, I know one, one reason why people like, Peter, like James, aren't in our history books anymore, is, uh, Woodrow Wilson. When he was, before he became president, before he was governor or even president of Princeton University, uh, he wrote a, you know, a three volume, I think believe it was three volume, but, uh, mul, multi volume set of American history. He went back to, I think maybe the pilgrims was maybe just totally before the pilgrams. And went up to the present day at that time, he wrote it very turn of the very early 20th century, 1905 ish, give or take a year or two on that. I can't remember the exact year that, uh, the volumes came out, but he wrote, uh, he wrote the American history, you know, those American history books, and it was supposed to be the complete history of, of America up to that point. And people like James and Peter weren't in it. Other, other notable African Americans Harriet Tubman, she wasn't in it, and she was alive at the time. Oh, Booker T Washington. He wasn't in it. He was alive at that time. You couldn't think to interview these two very important people.

Host: 16:34

Of course.

Guest: 16:35

I mean, Harriet Tubman, besides her working underground Railroad, from what I under, from what I've read, she helped rescue over 90 people from slavery, which is tremendous. She also served as a spy during the During for the union, during the Civil War. So she did a lot of amazing things. It wasn't, it wasn't just, and I, and I don't try to, you know, downgrade it in any way. Cause Underground Railroad was incredible but she didn't just do that. She did other things as well, and uh, you couldn't think to interview her real quick, so he didn't include those people. In the American History book, there is one reference to African Americans, from what I understand. I haven't personally looked at that three volume set. Excuse me. But, um, from what I saw, I saw a video that wall builders produced. It's on YouTube. You can look up wall builders on YouTube as well. And they, they have their own channel. They, they put a lot of great videos, a lot of great history, and they, they showed a copy of the, of the three volumes set in this particular video, and they opened up the book and there is a, a, um, a reference to an African American male. Not anyone in particular. And I'd tell you, I'll just put it, you know, bluntly here. The, the, um, that picture they used wasn't exactly a very flattering picture. It was a, it was a drawing, not an actual photograph, and it wasn't very flattering to say the least.

Host: 17:51

Oh my gosh.

Guest: 17:52

So, well, so what happened at that point? He writes the volumes and then people start learning from those three volume sets. They start learning American history from the, uh, the work that he did, the, the books that he. So you get that first generation there, very early 20th century. They don't learn those amazing names like Peter Salem and James Armstead. We still know about Harry Tubman and Booker T Washington. That's good. They're, they're still in our history books. Right. And even like Fedrick Douglas too. Fedrick Douglas, you know, he's, you know, I, those are names that I learned, I remember learning in school. Um, so that's good. Um, but the names before that, like, you know, like Peter and, and, and James and there's others as well. It's not, it's not just them. There's plenty other African Americans

Host: 18:34

yeah, I think I had mentioned to you before about Ida B. Wells Barnett. She was a journalist and she investigated a lot of lynchings that occurred and she ended up advocating for a lot of the anti-lynching laws. And, um, so she, she has been, You know, not really her story has not been told, I should say.

Guest: 18:57

No, not, not to the extent that it should be for sure. I mean, at the very least, briefly mention that story. I mean, how long did it take me to tell a story of Peter Salem? Right? I, I think a public school can fit that into their curriculum for one day. You know, take, take five minutes in one day and at least briefly mention the name Peter Salem. Um, so now with that, with that, those three volumes that, that, um, Woodrow Wilson wrote, People start learning US history from it. And then those individuals, they grow up, they become, some of them become teachers, and then they're teaching the next generation from the books that they've read from Woodrow Wilson. So it just, it just cascaded on from generation after generation where they're using, not just Woodrow Wilson said, but all stems from, from his and other volumes that were written around that. when Black Americans were written out of our history books. So to this day, that's why you got so many people this day who don't know those names, because generations before us were never taught them. So if you, you know, if you weren't taught something, you're not gonna be able to teach it to somebody else.

Host: 20:02

That's right. Exactly. And it's, it's unfortunate too because, um, Woodrow Wilson, I mean, it's no surprise there that he was, he tended to have a lot of discriminatory attitudes toward, towards African Americans. Oh yeah. And he was the president of the United States.

Guest: 20:23

Oh yeah. He was, he was. It was no secret that he was a racist. He, he most certainly was. Um, you know, he showed the, the first motion picture and the White House ever shown was during his administration. It was, Uh, gosh, what was that? I was, it was a Ku Klux Klan.

Host: 20:38

Oh. The Birth of a nation?

Guest: 20:39

Birth Of A Nation. Thank you.

Host: 20:41

Yeah. It was about the kkk. Yeah,

Guest: 20:43

yeah. And, and that's what really helped revive the Ku Klux Klan at that point, because the Klan was started shortly after the Civil War by Democrats, not necessarily the Democrat Party. You know, I'll, you know, put that out there..They were exactly affiliated with the Democrat Party. However, I'm, you know, I. Certainly say they probably worked together. Um, but it was Democrats who formed the Ku Klux Klan down in the south. And that Klan, you know, when you get to the early 20th century, Well, Woodrow Wilson is president, so you're talking about like 19, I think it was around 1912 ish or so when he became president, give or take.

Host: 21:18

Yeah.

Guest: 21:18

A year or two, somewhere around there.

Host: 21:19

That's right. Cause he also started the UN originally at that time, the, at least the foundation for the United Nations.

Guest: 21:28

Yeah, I think they wanted to call it the League of Nations, but

Host: 21:30

That's right.

Guest: 21:30

That's exactly after World War One to, you know, not, you know, have something like that ever happen again.

Host: 21:35

Right, Exactly.

Guest: 21:37

But the Klan started, The Klan was on the decline in the early 20th century during Woodrow Wilson's administration. and then he shows Birth of A Nation really kind of publicized that movie and that that helped. I mean, there was other things. I'm sure it wasn't just Woodrow Wilson showing that movie, but that certainly was a contributing factor to the revival of the Ku Klux Klan in the early 20th century.

Host: 21:59

Right. Well, that's so fascinating. And it's just incredible the bravery of these men and women, I should say too.

Guest: 22:08

Oh, yeah, Ladies, Ladies did a lot of tremendous things necessarily. African American ladies, I'm sure African American ladies, but ladies in general did a lot of amazing things in the Revolutionary War.

Host: 22:19

Right. Even, And when you said the Culper ring too in Long Island, um, I think there was a couple of women that were spies Oh yeah. That were, you know, really putting their lives on the line. I think one was married even. Mm-hmm. Um, so it's just so fascinating to hear them come to life.

Guest: 22:41

Yeah. I mean, there was, there were stories. There was a group of, it was two. Who saved our continental army at Valley Forge. So the Valley Forge, you know, we, we've heard that story, right? And, um, you know, in our, at least I remember learning that story in public school in my history classes, right? So Valley Forge right, is brutal. Horrible, horrible winter. Very early on we're getting our butts kicked by the British. So the morale just generally low. Now we got this brutal winter beating on the Army, killing people literal. So morale is at an all time low. You know, can we hold the army together? And uh, I don't know the women's names cuz their names from my understanding have been lost over history. So over time. That's right. But their stories have not been lost, fortunately. Um, they're not exactly well known. But what happened there was one day and none of the soldiers, my understanding, none of the soldiers knew this was gonna happen. There was, um, Two wagon loads. I think it was more than maybe two, maybe, maybe more, more than two. But wagons come in and pulled by teams of oxen with supplies on them, and the ox. The wagons were driven by women. Women had, they did the work to gather all this material, all these supplies, to deliver it to Valley Forge. They went through all this deep snow, however deep the snow was, and just the brutal temperatures driving the oxen through all this, can imagine what it's like to try to drive oxen. Deep snow and wood areas. There's no highway systems then,

Host: 24:10

or are no sleds.

Guest: 24:11

I mean, obvious they do, but they got the supplies there. I can't remember how many wagons they, they delivered, but it was, it was certainly more than one. And all these supplies were a huge morale booster, obviously, to the soldiers. They gave'em, you know, obviously those food, I'm sure they'll buy blankets, maybe tents, maybe some clothing. I'm not sure if they brought guns and ammunition with them or if it was just merely food and you know, stuff for shelter and things like that. Um, but you certainly, I mean, we'll never know what would've happened had they not done what they did. But, you know, I think it's, uh, you can certainly make the argument that had those women not taken upon themselves to gather all that material. Then deliver it to the soldiers of Valley Forge. Would we have, would our, would the Continental Army have survived that winter of Valley Forge? Would, would we have gone on to fight that that coming spring and continue on with the war? Because maybe there wouldn't have been an army after that winter.

Host: 25:09

I don't think so. I mean, just think about who made up that Continental Army. They were farmers. Yeah. They were just average American patriots. Really? You know, black, white, cuz remember? Black and white.

Guest: 25:22

Yes. Our army was very much integrated at that time. The very first battle, um, Battle of Lexington and Concord. It was a congregation that went out and met the British. It was a group of men from they all worship together at the same church. Not only do they fight together, they worship together. And it's says, stories we don't hear about today. We don't, you wouldn't think that the, the army was integrated back then, but it most certainly was. Um, and even, even, you can even say that the, um, that black soldiers were even more patriotic than white soldiers, cuz black soldiers on average serve about four times, I think four times or even more longer than the average white soldier.

Host: 26:00

But they were not trained, you know, um, like the British soldiers were. So no, it was such a huge uphill battle, really. I mean, it was a miracle Yes. That our side won

Guest: 26:15

Yep. Um, it's absolutely unbelievable. We had, um, big break after big break in that war. And even just little things like, like what those women did, like gathering those supplies. We had weather go our way at certain battles where, uh, the weather kind of concealed our movements and, um, made things difficult for, um, for the British. And you know, some people will say it's a, you know, divinely, um, you know, that God had his hand. In, in our victory over the British. So yeah, that's, there's no way we should have won that war.

Host: 26:47

That's true. I know, I know. And, uh, do you have anyone else, uh, I know we had discussed, you had mentioned something about the Civil War or did you wanna save that for next time? Cause I would really love to have you back, um, as a regular guest to talk about all these different people of history that shaped America.

Guest: 27:14

I, I would love to come back for sure. You know, work out a regular schedule, but I'd definitely love to come back and, yeah, we'll save it for, save it for another time. I'd like to, there, there is one individual I can think of off the top of my head who fought in the Civil War, very instrumental in, uh, in his contributions to, to defeating the Confederacy and, and, uh, just kind of overall why it's important to, to learn American. You know, history in general I think is important, but I, I gravitate particularly to, to American history. Got a little, uh, little bias towards America, I suppose, but, uh, little, little favoritism towards America.

Host: 27:49

There's no problem there.

Guest: 27:50

Nope. But, um, you, so I definitely gravitate towards that. But, um, history in general is incredibly important to know because it's, you know, who, if you like, the, the old saying goes, I don't know who said it, but those who don't learn history are doomed to repeat it. It's so 100% true and just some of the, the arguments you hear from, from the left these days on, on how they try to portray our founding fathers, how they try to portray how things were in America, you know, even before the American Revolution, you know, days of the pilgrims. When, uh, days, you know, when, uh, Jamestown first established and all that, and the whole 1619 project that's, its complete garbage. That's 16. I've, I've read part of it. I didn't read the whole thing cuz it's a series, it's a series of, of, uh, essays. And if I did read, um, Nicole Hannah Jones' particular essay and it, the Historical Facts, there's just massive gaping holes in her history and how she's presenting it. Unbelievable that she's leaving out so many key facts and so, and some really, really important people that really would kind of give you a more complete picture of that, of what she's trying to tell you. But she's either, she's ignorant to the history. Which isn't, which I wouldn't hold that against her because we've had people like Woodrow Wilson write out, um, people who are incredibly important to our history. So she just may not have never learned some of this history, which I totally understand. Or she's got an agenda, it's one of two. I'm not sure which it is. But um, yeah, I definitely love to come back and talk about those things. Um, you know, let's get, get people some good resources to, to go and they can research these things on their own. Um, there's lots of, there, there are resources out there. People can learn this stuff on their own.

Host: 29:33

Okay, great. Well thank you so much then Andrew. I appreciate it for taking your time to talk to us and this was, like I said, a really fascinating conversation and I'd like to do more so

Guest: 29:47

for sure. And I promise less coffee next time.

Host: 29:50

All right, so until next time.

Guest: 29:52

Right. Thank you. Bye. Bye-Bye. Thanks a lot for tuning in and I really hope you enjoyed the show with Andrew and listening to what he had to say. So until next time, bye.